Tire Question

[Transient]

It is a truck, run LTs it deserves it. Anything is only as strong as its weakest link. Tires are the first component of your suspension system and they take a beating.

"C" rated 35s.......That is the ultimate in all show and no go. Sorry I do not usualy make comments like that but it's true. It is like shopping for boots and wanting them to be as comfortable as sandels.

Steve

Thus, why I don't own any boots.

Actually, I lied. I have 2 pairs of boots. 1 for hiking and 1 for combat. I haven't been in combat in many years and hope it stays that way, but I'm prepared just in case. I do prefer to wear my Teva closed toe sandals everywhere I go. Sometimes I'll even go bare foot.

 

[The Raven]

It is a truck, run LTs it deserves it. Anything is only as strong as its weakest link. Tires are the first component of your suspension system and they take a beating.

"C" rated 35s.......That is the ultimate in all show and no go. Sorry I do not usualy make comments like that but it's true. It is like shopping for boots and wanting them to be as comfortable as sandels.

Steve

LOL wut?

C-rated tires are well beyond anything a 1/2 ton truck needs. From a technical perspective, they're already overkill. Anything more is a huge waste of so many things.

So many guys have this idea in their head that D and E load tires are "tougher" because of their load rating. Talk to the Jeep guys about load rating vs. toughness...they know which tires are tough and which are not - and you'll be surprised to find that a few of the toughest are C-rated and a few of the weakest are E and F rated.

 

[Transient]

LOL wut?

C-rated tires are well beyond anything a 1/2 ton truck needs. From a technical perspective, they're already overkill. Anything more is a huge waste of so many things.

So many guys have this idea in their head that D and E load tires are "tougher" because of their load rating. Talk to the Jeep guys about load rating vs. toughness...they know which tires are tough and which are not - and you'll be surprised to find that a few of the toughest are C-rated and a few of the weakest are E and F rated.

Why would any Jeep take an E-rated tire offroading? The sidewalls wouldn't flex enough when airing down. I'm not airing that often. When I do I'm not airing down that much because the OE wheels aren't the greatest for retaining a bead. I haul and tow, therefore need tires that'll allow me to do that safely. C-rated tires can be too soft for this. If the Silverado Trail Boss isn't meant to tow, why is the maximum towing capacity north of 9,000 lbs? What this argument comes down to is you need the right tools for the job. Every tool has its compromises. The thinking in my head for why I went with E-rated was for towing. The stiffer ride doesn't bother me that much because I have the softer Z71 suspension (which all Silverado Trail Bosses have), and I'm use to sports cars/muscle cars that have tires with almost no sidewalls. Different strokes for different folks. I'm okay, and you're okay.

 

[The Raven]

Why would any Jeep take an E-rated tire offroading? The sidewalls wouldn't flex enough when airing down.

LOTS of Jeep guys run E-rated tires...for various reasons. For some, they can't get the tire they want in a lighter range. For others it's the erroneous belief that E-rated tires will stand up better to the rocks.

I haul and tow, therefore need tires that'll allow me to do that safely. C-rated tires can be too soft for this. If the Silverado Trail Boss isn't meant to tow, why is the maximum towing capacity north of 9,000 lbs?

C-rated tires are more than enough to handle anything you should be towing with a 1/2-ton. If you are anywhere close to the towing capacity of the 1/2-ton, you should be driving a 3/4-ton. I never said the Trail Boss isn't meant to tow.

The thinking in my head for why I went with E-rated was for towing. The stiffer ride doesn't bother me that much because I have the softer Z71 suspension (which all Silverado Trail Bosses have), and I'm use to sports cars/muscle cars that have tires with almost no sidewalls. Different strokes for different folks. I'm okay, and you're okay.

What was said was that C-rated tires are "all show and no go" and I clarified that that is not fact. It seems as though you think I said something more than I actually said. I never said you CAN'T run E-rated tires...just that C-rated tires are more than enough.

 

[Stormin08]

all one has to do is read the sidewall and understand it. LOAD is LOAD.
now, one may LIKE the feel of a stiffer sidewall or a type of design...i love BIAS ply versus radial...Not talking STEEL BELTED either...just some much info that most dont even know ir understand...even your tire guy

 

[Transient]

LOTS of Jeep guys run E-rated tires...for various reasons. For some, they can't get the tire they want in a lighter range. For others it's the erroneous belief that E-rated tires will stand up better to the rocks.



C-rated tires are more than enough to handle anything you should be towing with a 1/2-ton. If you are anywhere close to the towing capacity of the 1/2-ton, you should be driving a 3/4-ton. I never said the Trail Boss isn't meant to tow.



What was said was that C-rated tires are "all show and no go" and I clarified that that is not fact. It seems as though you think I said something more than I actually said. I never said you CAN'T run E-rated tires...just that C-rated tires are more than enough.

If you have to interpret what I said, then you didn't pay attention to what I actually did l said.

It has been demonstrated that towing larger trailers with C-rated tires isn't as efficient at controlling sway at E-rated tires. The sidewalls allow the back end to wiggle more, which can lead to a dangerous, and even deadly, situation. A 24 to 28 foot travel trailer is 80% of the truck's rated towing capacity, and arguably a larger and heavier truck isn't needed for a 7,200 lbs trailer. Travel trailers are like big sails. A side wind will subject it to movement because it is light compared to its side profile area. Yes, gadgets can help when installed properly, but they aren't a sure thing. This is where E-rated tires come in. Their stiffer sidewall limit sideways flex better than C-rated tires while under load, which helps reduce trailer sway and the affect it has on the towing vehicle.

Furthermore, the adage about needing a bigger truck for heavier trailers is a flaw. It is a static rhetorical argument that fails to recognize newer generations of vehicles increase in size and capability. The half ton trucks made today can do what HDs were doing 20 years ago. A lot of Irie are waking up to this reality with the new Colorado and are comparing it to 20 year old half tons.

 

[The Raven]

If you have to interpret what I said, then you didn't pay attention to what I actually did l said.

No interpretation needed. Your words are clear, they're just off-topic. Here's the original quote:

"C" rated 35s.......That is the ultimate in all show and no go. Sorry I do not usualy make comments like that but it's true. It is like shopping for boots and wanting them to be as comfortable as sandels.

This is what I was referring to. It's incorrect, and it makes no mention of towing.

The point, whether you are addressing towing or oversized off-road tires, is that making a determination like PHXPHOTOG or you did from Load Range alone is inaccurate. Load Range is a ply rating. It's not even ply count (note the number of plies on a D-rated Duratrac, it's not 8). Thus, the only thing Load Range consistently tells you is the weight of the tire. A D-range tire will usually be heavier than a C-range, an E-range will usually be heavier than a D-range, and so on. It does not indicate sidewall strength or puncture resistance, it does not indicate sidewall stiffness, and it does not indicate tire load carrying ability - that's what Service Description exists for. The problem with the rating is that tire technology evolves, and tire makers have developed ply materials that are both lighter AND stronger than the old options. So modern C-range tires are actually tougher than older D- and E-range tires despite being quite a bit lighter (see the Territory MT and Recon Grappler for examples). For the same reason, sidewall stiffness cannot be determined on Load Range alone...because E-range tires made with these newer lighter plies are going to have more flexible (but stronger) sidewalls than even older C-range tires. So if you are worried about stiff tires, you are going to have to just look for towing reviews or do some testing of your own.


Side note - if you are towing upwards of 7k lbs you really should be in a 3/4-ton. Yes, I know, GM says you can do it with a 1/2-ton. But that doesn't mean you should. Your truck, your hitch setup, and your driving skill are all far bigger factors affecting sway than tire sidewall stiffness.

 

[Transient]

No interpretation needed. Your words are clear, they're just off-topic. Here's the original quote:



This is what I was referring to. It's incorrect, and it makes no mention of towing.

The point, whether you are addressing towing or oversized off-road tires, is that making a determination like PHXPHOTOG or you did from Load Range alone is inaccurate. Load Range is a ply rating. It's not even ply count (note the number of plies on a D-rated Duratrac, it's not 8). Thus, the only thing Load Range consistently tells you is the weight of the tire. A D-range tire will usually be heavier than a C-range, an E-range will usually be heavier than a D-range, and so on. It does not indicate sidewall strength or puncture resistance, it does not indicate sidewall stiffness, and it does not indicate tire load carrying ability - that's what Service Description exists for. The problem with the rating is that tire technology evolves, and tire makers have developed ply materials that are both lighter AND stronger than the old options. So modern C-range tires are actually tougher than older D- and E-range tires despite being quite a bit lighter (see the Territory MT and Recon Grappler for examples). For the same reason, sidewall stiffness cannot be determined on Load Range alone...because E-range tires made with these newer lighter plies are going to have more flexible (but stronger) sidewalls than even older C-range tires. So if you are worried about stiff tires, you are going to have to just look for towing reviews or do some testing of your own.


Side note - if you are towing upwards of 7k lbs you really should be in a 3/4-ton. Yes, I know, GM says you can do it with a 1/2-ton. But that doesn't mean you should. Your truck, your hitch setup, and your driving skill are all far bigger factors affecting sway than tire sidewall stiffness.

There you go mudding the water by quoting somebody else's post instead of what I said. My reply to you only affects you as it pertains to something you said. I was not defending a 3rd party. You need to learn to separate the 2.

Yes, load range is a ply rating. This goes back to 2 points in the convo: 1) The higher ply rating makes for a stiffer sidewall. A stiffer sidewall can aid in reducing trailer sway because the tail isn't as likely to wag the dog. 2) WTF would a Jeep offroad want a stiffer tire that is less likely to flex and mold around a rock? That doesn't make sense. In rock crawling Jeepers reduce air pressure to make the tire more likely to mold around the rock for increased traction. An E-rated tire is less likely to flex, and offer more resistance which can make it more likely to be torn. Even if it's only a few layers of sidewall it is still a torn tire. There's a balance that needs to met with tire, vehicle, weight, air pressure, and terrain. And, talking about Jeeps in a Chevrolet dedicated forum could be considered off topic. You went there first.

I'm not sure where you're getting the info that claims a D-rated Duratrac isn't 8 ply. Goodyear's website doesn't indicate that. TireRack's website only shows D-rated as being 8 ply. Furthermore, the problem you have with your claim is 3 fold. First, owners of these trucks have posted over the years the issues of towing with C-rated Duratracs and then the benefit of having switched to an E-rated tire. I've seen several of these posts over at GM-Trucks.com. Second, you assume the newer tech you mentioned failed to trickle from C-rated to E-rated tires. You need to demonstrate that to be taken credibly. Back up your claim that C-rated tires are stronger than E-rated. Third, load range isn't the weight of the tire. If it did E-rated tires of the same size would be reasonably consistent in weight from 1 manufacturer to another. We wouldn't have 10+ lbs variance of tire weight from AT tires in the same size from different manufacturers. Ply rating is merely maximum air pressure a tire can handle. However, the more ply a tire has the more it can resist the outward pressures of air. That's why a C-rated tires maximum air pressure is about 30 psi lower than an E-rated tire. This does mean the sidewall is stiffer in an E-rated tire due to having more layers.

Wrangler DuraTrac® Tires | Goodyear Tires

Shop Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac® tires online at Goodyear.com. Buy tires online and get free shipping to your local Goodyear tire shop.

www.goodyear.com

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-load-ranges-ply-ratings?gclid=CjwKCAiAg9urBhB_EiwAgw88mWfJOMPOVuIwAaNcBsX5IYlyRre0uWTD5VPijR0HEU1xiwBbZMeSDRoCMqUQAvD_BwE&ef_id=CjwKCAiAg9urBhB_EiwAgw88mWfJOMPOVuIwAaNcBsX5IYlyRre0uWTD5VPijR0HEU1xiwBbZMeSDRoCMqUQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!386427243784!!!g!!&gclsrc=aw.ds&&affiliate=CP4&gad_source=1

Finally, I find it ironic that you want to recognize evolution in tire technology but ignore evolution in truck development. The rated maximum towing capacity for a 2004 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD was 12,000 lbs. The maximum towing weight for today's 1500 is over 13,000 lbs. The Trail Boss comes from the factory with C-rated Duratracs with a load index of 113 (2,535 lbs). That's why it's reduced to 9,100 lbs towing with the 6.2 V8 (9,300 lbs with 5.3, iirc). Get a truck without the Trail Boss package and add RPO NHT (maximum towing package) and you get an larger axle among other things to get 13,000+ lbs towing. 7,000 lbs is nothing for these trucks. They are more than capable of towing slightly more than 1/2 their maximum towing capacity within reason of the tire specs. By your assertion, 7,000 lbs to too much weight for the 2004 Silverado 2500HD. Today's 1500s are just as big, if not bigger, than 20 year old 3/4-ton trucks. Increase in size has always been a constant in automotive evolution. As I said previously, the 2023 Colorado is the same size as a 20 year old Silverado 1500.

 

[The Raven]

There you go mudding the water by quoting somebody else's post instead of what I said. My reply to you only affects you as it pertains to something you said. I was not defending a 3rd party. You need to learn to separate the 2.

The water was crystal clear until you took us off topic.

1) The higher ply rating makes for a stiffer sidewall.

NO. I just explained why this is not true. This right here is your issue.

2) WTF would a Jeep offroad want a stiffer tire that is less likely to flex and mold around a rock? That doesn't make sense. In rock crawling Jeepers reduce air pressure to make the tire more likely to mold around the rock for increased traction. An E-rated tire is less likely to flex, and offer more resistance which can make it more likely to be torn. Even if it's only a few layers of sidewall it is still a torn tire. There's a balance that needs to met with tire, vehicle, weight, air pressure, and terrain.

I already explained this too - it's the same ignorance being displayed in this thread.

I'm not sure where you're getting the info that claims a D-rated Duratrac isn't 8 ply. Goodyear's website doesn't indicate that. TireRack's website only shows D-rated as being 8 ply. Furthermore, the problem you have with your claim is 3 fold. First, owners of these trucks have posted over the years the issues of towing with C-rated Duratracs and then the benefit of having switched to an E-rated tire. I've seen several of these posts over at GM-Trucks.com. Second, you assume the newer tech you mentioned failed to trickle from C-rated to E-rated tires. You need to demonstrate that to be taken credibly. Back up your claim that C-rated tires are stronger than E-rated. Third, load range isn't the weight of the tire. If it did E-rated tires of the same size would be reasonably consistent in weight from 1 manufacturer to another. We wouldn't have 10+ lbs variance of tire weight from AT tires in the same size from different manufacturers. Ply rating is merely maximum air pressure a tire can handle. However, the more ply a tire has the more it can resist the outward pressures of air. That's why a C-rated tires maximum air pressure is about 30 psi lower than an E-rated tire. This does mean the sidewall is stiffer in an E-rated tire due to having more layers.

The D-rated Duratrac is a 7-ply tire. How do I know this? I read it right off the sidewall. I also DID say that ply technology applies to all load ranges. The rest of this paragraph is a complete mess of points that either echo mine or have already been explained as incorrect.

The following claims are false:
- E-rated tires are automatically stiffer than C-rated or D-rated tires
- Ply rating limits maximum air pressure
- More plies equate to a stiffer sidewall

Finally, I find it ironic that you want to recognize evolution in tire technology but ignore evolution in truck development. The rated maximum towing capacity for a 2004 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD was 12,000 lbs. The maximum towing weight for today's 1500 is over 13,000 lbs. The Trail Boss comes from the factory with C-rated Duratracs with a load index of 113 (2,535 lbs). That's why it's reduced to 9,100 lbs towing with the 6.2 V8 (9,300 lbs with 5.3, iirc). Get a truck without the Trail Boss package and add RPO NHT (maximum towing package) and you get an larger axle among other things to get 13,000+ lbs towing. 7,000 lbs is nothing for these trucks. They are more than capable of towing slightly more than 1/2 their maximum towing capacity within reason of the tire specs. By your assertion, 7,000 lbs to too much weight for the 2004 Silverado 2500HD. Today's 1500s are just as big, if not bigger, than 20 year old 3/4-ton trucks. Increase in size has always been a constant in automotive evolution. As I said previously, the 2023 Colorado is the same size as a 20 year old Silverado 1500.

It's been a known constant since the dawn of tow ratings - never exceed 75% of the rating of your truck. So for a truck rated to tow 9400lbs, 7000 should be your limit, like I said. This goes to the long term durability of your truck. Sure you CAN tow more...if you want more problems down the road.

 

[TallowCreek]

Mounted some 295/70/18 Cooper AT3’s today. so much quieter than the stock duratrac’s.View attachment 4614

Looks good. No issues with rubbing, etc? I know it is asked a thousand times but I want to put the largest possible tires on my TB without making any mods. Thanks!

 

[Transient]

The water was crystal clear until you took us off topic.



NO. I just explained why this is not true. This right here is your issue.



I already explained this too - it's the same ignorance being displayed in this thread.



The D-rated Duratrac is a 7-ply sidewall. How do I know this? I read it right off the sidewall. I also DID say that ply technology applies to all load ranges. The rest of this paragraph is a complete mess of points that either echo mine or have already been explained as incorrect.

The following claims are false:
- E-rated tires are automatically stiffer than C-rated or D-rated tires
- Ply rating limits maximum air pressure
- More plies equate to a stiffer sidewall



It's been a known constant since the dawn of tow ratings - never exceed 75% of the rating of your truck. So for a truck rated to tow 9400lbs, 7000 should be your limit, like I said. This goes to the long term durability of your truck. Sure you CAN tow more...if you want more problems down the road.

Opinions, and couldn't provide a source for any of your claims. You failed to establish credibility. This is a waste of time. Let's agree to disagree so this thread can move on.

 

[The Raven]

Opinions, and couldn't provide a source for any of your claims. You failed to establish credibility. This is a waste of time. Let's agree to disagree so this thread can move on.

The information I posted is standard stuff...a quick Google search is all one needs if one is so inclined. One thing i've learned over two decades of car-centric-forum discussion - when discussing standard knowledge that has been around for decades - no one is going to be swayed. If you've lived your life up to this point not believing it you aren't going to start now. So providing sources is fruitless. Those who disagree will simply try to discredit the sources. I don't have time to waste on that.